Re: [CNI-COPYRIGHT] Re: Framing in a.k.a. Branding outside WebResources

Thursday, April 3, 2003, 3:26:22 PM, you wrote:

TO> My personal opinion is that inline linking is different from framing,
TO> and that the type of framing you describe should not be a COPYRIGHT
TO> violation.  Putting something on the Web must be considered an implied
TO> license to display it on the user's computer.

However, many sites have conditions listed on their site, or enforced by other means, such as payment. What if the framed material is from a pay site (with appropriate tokens being passed to allow the material to be shown)? What if it is a free site, but with conditions attached, that no one bothers to read?

TO> So long as the complete
TO> display can be seen by scrolling up and down or right and left, the fact
TO> that it is framed by another site should, in my opinion, be a matter of
TO> unfair competition law, not copyright.

Agree it isn't a copyright issue.

TO> But courts that enforce "terms
TO> and conditions" on a site, whether there is actual consent or not, would
TO> disagree.

Indeed, as would I. But IANAL and IANAJ.

TO> I think the more applicable theory is unfair competition, i.e., that
TO> framing that might confuse the user as to sponsorship or origin.  If it
TO> is confusing, it definitely should not be done.  But I think most web
TO> users are saavy enough to understand that the framed site is not
TO> endorsing or giving permission to the framing site, so I don't think
TO> this theory should be upheld either, as a general matter.

But the framed party (gee, sounds like a defendant in criminal court, doesn't it? But your honor, I was framed!) wouldn't agree, since he'd always point out that number of less savvy users who wouldn't understand it.

Perhaps the most important issue is the link to the framed site. Most users will save a link and it will be to the framing site, not the framed site. Sure, some of us know how to save a link to the framed page, but most don't.

TO> Bottom line: I am of the opinion that framing is legal, so long as it
TO> does not mislead the public.  But not all courts would agree with me,
TO> and the one published opinion of which I am aware suggests that framing
TO> without permission may violate the copyright act.

Regardless of legality, framing confuses most users and can mislead in many ways. It does seem ironic that the site in question forbids internal framing, but wants to frame externally. If they want to be sure that users can get back to their site, they can simply force all off-site links to open in a new window.

cheers

dan

-- 
Dan Lester, Data Wrangler  dan[_at_]RiverOfData.com 208-283-7711
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