Re: Re: On the Need to Take Both Roads to Open Access

Interesting. But I mostly post for the benefit of those who DO participate, so if he doesn't respond, that's fine with me.

I even occassionally respond to sterling if I think the list members should hear another view (should they bother to read his rantings).

-Bodi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Tabor" <ket354[_at_]yahoo.com>
To: "CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property" <CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 4:05 PM Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: On the Need to Take Both Roads to Open Access

> Robert:
>
> If my memory serves me, Mr. Hanard used to a be a
> contributor on this list. In the last year or so
> (maybe the last two years?) he has decided to just
> copy this list on his responses to discussions in some
> other forum.
>
> I guess he thinks we are interested in his discussions
> when they touch on copyright.
>
> But, I think he believes that he is above actually
> monitoring this list, or participating on this list.
>
> If you really want to enter into a debate with him you
> will have to respond directly to him or find the
> original forum of the debate.
>
> But, do not expect him to be influenced by your logic.
> You will have better luck changing sterling's position
> than Mr. Hanard's.
>
> So, when he doesn't respond to this post, remember: he
> is not ignoring you or your post; he is ignoring all
> of us on this list.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Keith
>
> PS: Even when he contributed, his only interest was in
> "academic self archiving," which is really more of a
> contractual issue between publishers and writers than
> a copyright issue.
>
>
> --- "Robert F. Bodi" <lawlists[_at_]bodi.com> wrote:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stevan Harnad" <harnad[_at_]ecs.soton.ac.uk>
> > To: "CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual
> > Property"
> > <CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 11:11 AM
> > Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: On the Need to Take Both
> > Roads to Open Access
> >
> > > But -- and this is absolutely critical if we are
> > to understand free
> > > online full-text access in the PostGutenberg Age
> > correctly: My making
> > > my own full-text freely accessible online means
> > *anyone* worldwide who has
> > > access to the web may (i) retrieve my full-text
> > online, (ii) read it
> > > on-screen, (iii) download it, (iv) save it, (v)
> > print it off, (vi) do
> > > online or offline computations on it. In addition,
> > the software agents
> > > (e.g. google) that I choose to empower to do so
> > (and, by default, this
> > > could be all of them) can, like individuals, (vii)
> > harvest my text,
> > > invert it, index it, perhaps perform further
> > computations on it.
> > >
> > > This is not even a legal fact, it is a practical,
> > technological and
> > > inevitable fact about free, full-text web access
> > and the nature of
> > > computers and the internet (and of files that are
> > not fire-walled by a
> > > password or encryption or agent-blocker). If a law
> > allows us to walk
> > > inside a building, a separate law is not needed to
> > say we may breathe the
> > > air in the building; nor is a law that says we may
> > walk but not breathe
> > > enforceable -- except in a sci-fi scenario that is
> > not worth our wasting
> > > our time even contemplating, either in the case of
> > walk-but-don't-breathe
> > > or read-but-don't-download-or-compute.
> >
> > Although you are correct about the technical aspects
> > of the WWW, your legal
> > conclusions do not necessarily follow, and your
> > analogy is not good. If a
> > law allows you to walk into a building, that does
> > NOT imply that you can
> > open file cabinets, use computers, take sodas from
> > refrigerators, etc. that
> > are in that building. Similarly, the law is not yet
> > settled on all of the
> > copyright implications of technology. The fact that
> > certain things need to
> > happen to make the WWW work well is NOT to say that
> > they are legally allowed
> > without restriction. Case law seems to be heading
> > in that direction, but we
> > are NOT yet fully there.
> >
> > For example, just because a paper is available
> > online does NOT legally imply
> > that you can print it, or save it on your computer.
> > At least, I have yet to
> > find any court that says so. However, there is a
> > strong argument and cases
> > have found that, if publicly viewable, you at least
> > have the right to do so,
> > and likely also the right to link to the paper. But
> > printing and
> > downloading (e.g., saving) the paper is a different
> > story, and is a
> > questionable practice in my opinion. For that,
> > explicit permission by the
> > copyright holder would be useful.
> >
> > -Bodi
> >
> >
> >
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<https://mail2.cni.org/Lists/CNI-COPYRIGHT/>. Received on Fri Oct 10 2003 - 21:17:08 GMT