Re: Re: Walls

This is a very interesting explaination of the ditch digger problem. that problem was discussed on this list several years ago.

Essentially the Ditch Digger creates a canal arnound an island which substantially improves the quality of the land that the canal surrounds. This ditch is well dug, made stable by a myraid of technique and experience, and the whole of the land in improved. Other ditch diggers would have done the job differently, choosen different options, placed the survey stakes in different places and not performed the ditch stabilization procedures, etc.

Is this ditch digger entitled to a copyright for his work?

   can persons photograph it without his/her permission?    can phtographs of the ditch be distributed without his/her permission.    etc.

Does the ditch digger's ditch not contain as much or more skillful artwork in better organized fashion tham most paintings or writings that are copyrighted?. What's the difference between the ditch digger's shovel and the artist's paint brush or the writer's pen? All three are expressions of a particular mix of human experience, native talents, and skillful application of technique.

sterling

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, Gregory Aharonian wrote:

>
> >A world renowned artist builds a stone wall on the grounds of a museum
> >dedicated to exhibiting outdoor sculpture. It separates a grassy lawn from
> >the woods, but, in the process weaves in and out of the tree-line like a
> >flowing river with goose-necks so that some of the woods are on this side
> >of the wall, and some are on that side.
>
> >Mack the Mason builds a fieldstone wall across the back of my property,
> >like the example above, it meanders in and out of the uncleared woods that
> >overlap my property line, perhaps pausing and bending to accommodate a
> >rock, etc.
>
> >Question one:
> >Why is the first example considered to be copyrighted and the second not?
> >Certainly intention to be treated as a work of art is not a factor, nor is
> >the reputation (or lack of same) of the maker relative. Nor is the location
> >of the work of consequence. Perhaps the functional dimension is
> >significant.
>
> Patent offices have utility patents on similar structures because the
> functional dimension dominates, that is, what is of importance is the
> structures and methods used, i.e., the functional ideas, ideas that are
> statutorily patentable and not copyrightable. What Mack the Mason does
> involves building a wall according to the gradients in the topography
> of the back of your property, with some smoothing functions for cost and
> aesthetic purposes - I can write you a big equation for this. And like
> other engineers, Mack the Mason has an increasing number of engineering
> design tools at his disposal little different from engineering design
> tools that are behind the vast majority of utility and design patents.
>
> The patent system doesn't care if an artist applies for a patent, or if
> an engineer applies for a patent, or if the patent is architectural or
> sculptural. All that counts is if you can describe the structures and
> methods in patent claims so others can learn and use your techniques,
> teaching descriptions the copyright world sadly lacks.
>
> The question illustrates the growing overlap of patents and copyrights,
> and the need to determine the legal relationship between "idea" as used
> in patent law, and "idea" as used in copyright law. Someone accused of
> non-literal infringement has a good counterattack by having a patent
> lawyer waive a stack of related patents and invoke 17 U.S.C. 102(b).
>
> Greg Aharonian
> Internet Patent News Service
>
>
>
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Received on Tue Feb 22 2005 - 23:40:30 GMT