Hi,
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I've not seen one of my questions make it to the list yet. In any case, I'll try again.
Can the rules of a T-shirt/logo design contest simply state that all entries become the property of the contest organizer (a not-for-profit group), or does an actual transfer of copyright need to take place? What, if any, liability might be incurred by the organizer if no transfer is made?
Thanks,
Deborah Cotton
ACM, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
[mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org]
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 6:40 PM
To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
Subject: CNI-COPYRIGHT Digest #2483
CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property Digest #2483
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Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 14:14:05 -0400
Message-ID: <redirect-10063519[_at_]cni.org>
Subject: RE: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists
From: "Webb, Jere" <JMWEBB[_at_]stoel.com>
I am reading with interest the responses to my original post about = potential copyright protection for playlists. I think the recipe cases = are a good test for the distinction that is troublesome here; that is, = does copyright law say that facts aren't protected but creative = expression or arrangement of facts may be (although that protection is = "thin"), or is the correct statement of the controlling rule that facts = are not protected, but that creative SELECTION or arrangement of facts = may be. Once you expand protection to SELECTION, you have thrown a real = monkey wrench into the analysis and, I believe, are completely at sea. = The recipe cases- and I have read most of them-are a perfect example. = Despite the somewhat conflicting posts about copyrightability of = recipes, I think it is pretty clear that the list of ingredients and = amounts are not protected and can be copied, but that recipes with = creative expression (i.e. a lot of textual description) may enjoy some = protection, just like any other text. But here's the rub: the list of = ingredients and amounts could have resulted from incredible creativity = and experience, yet I do not believe that any amount of such creativity = makes the list of ingredients subject to copyright protection. Am I = missing something? =20
-----Original Message-----
From: John [mailto:jfnbl[_at_]earthlink.com]
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 3:11 PM
To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Steven Jamar <sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu>
>Date: Friday, April 1, 2005 4:25 pm
>Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists
>
>> recipes are not copyrightable.
>
>Says who?
Let's be specific. A recipe, qua formula, is not copyrightable. It's=20 expression, by Julia Childs for example, may well be -- subject to=20 merger doctrine limitations.
John Noble
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Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 14:14:05 -0400
Message-ID: <redirect-10063520[_at_]cni.org>
From: Freya Anderson <freya_anderson[_at_]eed.state.ak.us>
Subject: RE: [CNI-(C)] Re:was music playlists, now recipes
In-reply-to: <list-10034522[_at_]cni.org>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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But look in your quote below (see my added bold). Almost every recipe I've seen, whether or not in a cookbook, includes at least some explanation or directions. Recipes, then, would have to be analyzed to determine copyrightability, would they not?
Freya
John P. McNeill wrote:
> See http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html
>
> Mere listings of ingredients as in recipes, formulas, compounds or
prescriptions are not subject to copyright >protection. However, where a
recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in the
form >of an explanation or directions, or when there is a combination of
recipes, as in a cookbook, there may be a basis >for copyright protection.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
> [mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org] On Behalf Of Wallace J.McLean
> Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 4:45 PM
> To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
> Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Steven Jamar <sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu>
> Date: Friday, April 1, 2005 4:25 pm
> Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists
>
> > recipes are not copyrightable.
>
> Says who?
>
--Boundary_(ID_+kmgnGo/4m+qpLdGFZgu3Q)
Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <TITLE></TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1476" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <P><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>But look in your quote below (see my added
bold). Almost every recipe I've seen, whether or not in a cookbook,
includes at least some explanation or directions. Recipes, then,
would have to be analyzed to determine copyrightability, would they
not?</FONT></P>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Freya<BR></FONT><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>John P. McNeill wrote:</FONT><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><BR>> See </FONT><A href="http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html" target=_blank><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html</FONT></A><BR><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>> <BR>> Mere listings of ingredientsas
formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in the form
</STRONG>><STRONG>of an explanation or directions</STRONG>, or when there
is
a combination of recipes, as in a cookbook, there may be a basis >for
copyright protection.<BR>><BR>><BR>> -----Original
Message-----<BR>>
From: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property<BR>>
[</FONT><A
href="mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org</FONT></A><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>] On Behalf Of Wallace J.McLean<BR>> Sent: Friday, April 01, 20054:45
Friday, April 1, 2005 4:25 pm<BR>> Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: music
playlists<BR>><BR>> > recipes are not
copyrightable.<BR>><BR>>
Says who?<BR>><BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_+kmgnGo/4m+qpLdGFZgu3Q)--
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 14:14:05 -0400
Message-ID: <redirect-10063515[_at_]cni.org>
Subject: Re: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists
From: Steven Jamar <sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-10034521[_at_]cni.org>
--Apple-Mail-6-947719277 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
A recipe understood as a list of ingredients and the way and order to mix them is not ever copyrightable -- so far, anyway. But one could have some flowery (pun intended) descriptive text about the dish or about how to put it together or about the metaphysical pleasures of grinding spices or some such which could be creative expression not subject to the merger doctrine or the exclusion under 102(b).
So I guess it depends upon what one considers a "recipe". I was using it in the narrow sense, not in the florid sense.'
So the answer is that the list of ingredients and how to mix them and how to make the dish is never, ever copyrightable. That is the idea which merges with the expression. But one can tack on a bunch of other prose that could be. For example, in The Joy of Cooking, there is a great deal of copyrightable prose telling one about how to cook and giving various tips. But when one gets to the recipes themselves -- a list of ingredients with terse prose on how to mix and how long to cook, there is nothing separate from the idea. Or at least not in the recipes I follow.
Steve
On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 06:10 PM, LKim[_at_]cohenlaw.com wrote:
> They aren't, even when evaluated on a case by case basis (hence the
> word
> "copyrightable")?
>
> See, e.g., <http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html>.
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Lee Kim, Esq.
> Patent Agent
> Cohen & Grigsby, P.C.
> 11 Stanwix Street, 15th Floor
> Pittsburgh, PA 15222
> Direct dial: 412-297-4969
> FAX: 412-209-1965
> E-mail: lkim[_at_]cohenlaw.com
>
>
>
> Steven Jamar
> <sjamar[_at_]law.howar
> d.edu>
> To
> Sent by: "CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright &
> "CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Intellectual Property"
> Copyright & <CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org>
> Intellectual
> cc
> Property"
> <CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cn
> Subject
> i.org> [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists
>
>
> 04/01/2005 04:25
> PM
>
>
> Please respond to
> "CNI-COPYRIGHT --
> Copyright &
> Intellectual
> Property"
> <CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cn
> i.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> recipes are not copyrightable. collections of them are.
>
> On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 04:05 PM, LKim[_at_]cohenlaw.com wrote:
>
>> I would analogize play lists as being similar to recipes.
>> Recipes are copyrightable as compilations. Nimmer makes reference to
>> this, but the
>> copyright is thin. Here, the play lists are being copied without
>> authorization and, to the extent that they are copied as a whole, this
>> raises a good question of whether verbatim copyright infringement has
>> been
>> committed and the thickness of the protection of said copyright.
>> [106(1)
>> being the right to reproduce and authorize the making of copies --
>> separate
>> and apart from 106(3) -- the right to distribute and authorize the
>> distribution of said copies (this would include "publishing"/making
>> available to the public)).]
>>
>> ------------------------------------------
>>
>> Lee Kim, Esq.
>> Patent Agent
> --
> Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox:
> 202-806-8017
> Howard University School of Law fax:
> 202-806-8428
> 2900 Van Ness Street NW
> mailto:sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu
> Washington, DC 20008
> http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar
>
> Nothing worth doing is completed in our lifetime,
> Therefore, we are saved by hope.
> Nothing true or beautiful or good makes complete sense in any
> immediate context of history; Therefore, we are saved by faith.
> Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone.
> Therefore, we are saved by love.
> No virtuous act is quite a virtuous from the standpoint of our friend
> or foe as from our own;
> Therefore, we are saved by the final form of love which is forgiveness.
>
> Reinhold Neibuhr
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email contains confidential, privileged information intended only
> for the addressee. If you have received this email in error, please
> call us (collect) immediately at 412-297-4900 and ask to speak to the
> message sender. Also, please email the message back to the sender at
> Cohen & Grigsby by replying to it and then deleting it. We appreciate
> your assistance in correcting this error.
>
> http://www.cohenlaw.com
> **********************************************************************
>
>
> #############################################################
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> the mailing list <CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org>.
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>
-- Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567 2900 Van Ness Street NW mailto:sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu Washington, DC 20008 http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar/ "There are obviously two educations. One should teach us how to make a living and the other how to live." James Truslow Adams --Apple-Mail-6-947719277 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII A recipe understood as a list of ingredients and the way and order to mix them is not ever copyrightable -- so far, anyway. But one could have some flowery (pun intended) descriptive text about the dish or about how to put it together or about the metaphysical pleasures of grinding spices or some such which could be creative expression not subject to the merger doctrine or the exclusion under 102(b). So I guess it depends upon what one considers a "recipe". I was using it in the narrow sense, not in the florid sense.' So the answer is that the list of ingredients and how to mix them and how to make the dish is never, ever copyrightable. That is the idea which merges with the expression. But one can tack on a bunch of other prose that could be. For example, in The Joy of Cooking, there is a great deal of copyrightable prose telling one about how to cook and giving various tips. But when one gets to the recipes themselves -- a list of ingredients with terse prose on how to mix and how long to cook, there is nothing separate from the idea. Or at least not in the recipes I follow. Steve On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 06:10 PM, LKim[_at_]cohenlaw.com wrote: <excerpt>They aren't, even when evaluated on a case by case basis (hence the word "copyrightable")? See, e.g., <<http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html>. ------------------------------------------ Lee Kim, Esq. Patent Agent Cohen & Grigsby, P.C. 11 Stanwix Street, 15th Floor Pittsburgh, PA 15222 Direct dial: 412-297-4969 FAX: 412-209-1965 E-mail: lkim[_at_]cohenlaw.com Steven Jamar <<sjamar[_at_]law.howar d.edu> To Sent by: "CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & "CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Intellectual Property" Copyright & <<CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org> Intellectual cc Property" <<CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cn Subject i.org> [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists 04/01/2005 04:25 PM Please respond to "CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property" <<CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cn i.org> recipes are not copyrightable. collections of them are. On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 04:05 PM, LKim[_at_]cohenlaw.com wrote: <excerpt> I would analogize play lists as being similar to recipes. Recipes are copyrightable as compilations. Nimmer makes reference to this, but the copyright is thin. Here, the play lists are being copied without authorization and, to the extent that they are copied as a whole, this raises a good question of whether verbatim copyright infringement has been committed and the thickness of the protection of said copyright. [106(1) being the right to reproduce and authorize the making of copies -- separate and apart from 106(3) -- the right to distribute and authorize the distribution of said copies (this would include "publishing"/making available to the public)).] ------------------------------------------ Lee Kim, Esq. Patent Agent </excerpt>-- Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8428 2900 Van Ness Street NW mailto:sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu Washington, DC 20008 http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar Nothing worth doing is completed in our lifetime, Therefore, we are saved by hope. Nothing true or beautiful or good makes complete sense in any immediate context of history; Therefore, we are saved by faith. Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone. Therefore, we are saved by love. No virtuous act is quite a virtuous from the standpoint of our friend or foe as from our own; Therefore, we are saved by the final form of love which is forgiveness. Reinhold Neibuhr ********************************************************************** This email contains confidential, privileged information intended only for the addressee. If you have received this email in error, please call us (collect) immediately at 412-297-4900 and ask to speak to the message sender. Also, please email the message back to the sender at Cohen & Grigsby by replying to it and then deleting it. We appreciate your assistance in correcting this error. http://www.cohenlaw.com ********************************************************************** ############################################################# This message is sent to you because you are subscribed to the mailing list <<CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org>. To unsubscribe, E-mail to: <<CNI-COPYRIGHT-off[_at_]cni.org> To switch to the DIGEST mode, E-mail to <<CNI-COPYRIGHT-digest[_at_]cni.org> To switch to the INDEX mode, E-mail to <<CNI-COPYRIGHT-index[_at_]cni.org> To postpone your subscription, E-mail to <<CNI-COPYRIGHT-null[_at_]cni.org> Send administrative queries to <<CNI-COPYRIGHT-request[_at_]cni.org> Visit the CNI-COPYRIGHT e-mail list archive at <<https://mail2.cni.org/Lists/CNI-COPYRIGHT/>. </excerpt><fixed><fontfamily><param>Monaco</param>-- Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567 2900 Van Ness Street NW <underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param>mailto:sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu< /color></underline> Washington, DC 20008 <underline><color><param>1A1A,1A1A,FFFF</param>http://www.law.howard.edu/fac ulty/pages/jamar/</color></underline> "There are obviously two educations. One should teach us how to make a living and the other how to live." James Truslow Adams</fontfamily></fixed> --Apple-Mail-6-947719277-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 14:14:05 -0400 Message-ID: <redirect-10063521[_at_]cni.org> From: "Wallace J.McLean" <ag737[_at_]freenet.carleton.ca> Subject: Re: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists What Copyright Act? And no, "recipes" are not "the quintessential process or method". A recipe is more than mere process or method. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Jamar <sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu> Date: Friday, April 1, 2005 6:10 pm Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlistsReceived on Thu Apr 07 2005 - 00:15:31 GMT
> section 102(b) of the Copyright Act. Recipes are the
> quintessential process or method.
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 14:14:05 -0400 Message-ID: <redirect-10063522[_at_]cni.org> From: "Wallace J.McLean" <ag737[_at_]freenet.carleton.ca> Subject: Re: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists A formula or list of ingredients is NOT a recipe. ----- Original Message ----- From: John <jfnbl[_at_]earthlink.com> Date: Friday, April 1, 2005 6:10 pm Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Steven Jamar <sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu>
> >Date: Friday, April 1, 2005 4:25 pm
> >Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists
> >
> >> recipes are not copyrightable.
> >
> >Says who?
>
> Let's be specific. A recipe, qua formula, is not copyrightable.
> It's
> expression, by Julia Childs for example, may well be -- subject to
> merger doctrine limitations.
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 14:14:05 -0400 Message-ID: <redirect-10063523[_at_]cni.org> From: "Nicholls, Timothy" <Timothy.Nicholls[_at_]PearsonEd.com> Subject: I have just registered to join the CNI.Org listserver and I was wondering if I could post the following information about an upcoming seminar being held in Boston. ____________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________ aap The Association of American Publishers (AAP) Rights and Permissions Advisory Committee (RPAC) presents a replicate of the successful seminar: The TEACH and the No Child Left Behind Acts Revisited: New Roles, Rules, Opportunities and Responsibilities for Publishers, Schools, Colleges and Academic Libraries Tuesday, April 26th, 2005 8:45 a.m. to 12:15 p.m. Houghton Mifflin Offices 222 Berkeley Street Boston, MA 02116 The U.S. Department of Education calls the No Child Left Behind Act "A landmark in education reform designed to improve student achievement and change the culture of America's schools." Additionally, The TEACH Act represents a milestone in the continual updating of copyright law and academic practice regarding distance education. Learn what these changes mean for your company and the industry as a whole. Please join us for a morning discussion of these significant pieces of legislation. 8:45-9:15 am Registration and Continental Breakfast 9:15-9:30 am Speaker Introductions and Welcome by Moderator and RPAC member Tim Nicholls, Manager, Rights and Permissions at Pearson Education. 9:30-10:30 am Stephanie Gertz, Director, Governmental Relations, Riverside Publishing, will present an overview of the No Child Left Behind Act and comment on changes that have been made to it over the past year as well as modifications that are being considered. 10:30-10:45 am Coffee Break 10:45-12:15 pm Allan R. Adler, VP of Legal & Government Affairs for the AAP, will provide a general overview of the TEACH Act and what the law means for publishers. Tracey Armstrong, Executive Vice President at the Copyright Clearance Center, has worked extensively in conjunction with the AAP in drafting accessible materials explaining TEACH. Ms. Armstrong will discuss the TEACH Act from a copyright and industry perspective. Ms. Armstrong will also focus on the user side, representing what CCC is hearing on campus regarding TEACH. If you missed the last seminar, here is your chance to attend! Turn over for Registration Form or register online at: http://www.publishers.org/conference/regform.cfm?EventID=60 REGISTRATION FORM ____ YES! I would like to attend No Child Left Behind and The TEACH Acts Revisited: New Roles, Rules, Opportunities and Responsibilities for Publishers, Schools, Colleges and Academic Libraries on Tuesday, April 26th, 2005 from 8:45 am-12: 15 pm. (Please provide adequate time for your arrival as you will be required to show a photo ID in order to receive a guest pass for the seminar). Registration fee: [ ] $65.00 - AAP Members [ ] $100.00 - Non-Members My preferred method of payment is: ____ Check enclosed (Please make check payable to Association of American Publishers, Inc.) ____ Please charge my credit card ____ AmEx ____ Visa ____ MasterCard ____ Member ____ Non-Member Card Number_____________________________________ Exp: ___________ Signature as it appears on card____________________________________________ Name _________________________________________________________________ Title/Company__________________________________________________________ Address________________________________________________________________ City_____________________________ State_____________ Zip______________ Telephone___________________________ Fax______________________________ Email__________________________________________________________________ Please mail or fax registration form and payment to: Sarah Williams Association of American Publishers 71 Fifth Avenue, 2nd Floor New York, NY 10003 Fax: 212-255-7007 Cancellation Policy: Full refund for cancellations on or before April 12, 2005. NO REFUND FOR CANCELLATIONS AFTER April 12, 2005. In the unlikely event of seminar cancellation, the AAP is not responsible for any costs, damages or other expenses of any kind including, without limitation, transportation and/or hotel costs incurred by registrant. Speakers subject to change without notice. ____________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________ Thanks Tim Nicholls Manager, Rights & Permissions Pearson Education, Inc 75 Arlington Street, Suite 300 Boston, MA 02116 **************************************************************************** This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Visit the CNI-COPYRIGHT e-mail list archive at <https://mail2.cni.org/Lists/CNI-COPYRIGHT/> End of CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property Digest #2483 **********************************************************************
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