RE: Re: music playlists

As I stated in my post last Friday, I agree that the list of ingredients and amounts in a recipe is NEVER subject to copyright protection, no matter how much creative thought or "selection" went into it. To me the interesting question is how one distinguishes this example from other situations where courts have said that creative selection can yield copyright protection even where the expressiion is a simple list of facts. I believe there is a case like involving a list of the most desirable baseball cards. When I raised this issue with one of the lawyers here in our IP group, the response I got was that a recipe differs because the list is functional and you can never claim copyright protection for a simple functional list of facts. This may explain why the recipe cases travel in their own little baliwick, but I have a lot of trouble with this distinction. I think it is very slippery and difficult to apply and maybe not even logical. In both my baseball cards example and in the case of simple recipe (one with little or no text), there could have been an incredible amount of creativity go into the list, but the expression of the list itself in both cases is devoid of any creative component. I am interested in thoughts others have on this point.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Jamar [mailto:sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu] Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:14 AM
To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists

A recipe understood as a list of ingredients and the way and order to mix them is not ever copyrightable -- so far, anyway. But one could have some flowery (pun intended) descriptive text about the dish or about how to put it together or about the metaphysical pleasures of grinding spices or some such which could be creative expression not subject to the merger doctrine or the exclusion under 102(b).

So I guess it depends upon what one considers a "recipe". I was using it in the narrow sense, not in the florid sense.'

So the answer is that the list of ingredients and how to mix them and how to make the dish is never, ever copyrightable. That is the idea which merges with the expression. But one can tack on a bunch of other prose that could be. For example, in The Joy of Cooking, there is a great deal of copyrightable prose telling one about how to cook and giving various tips. But when one gets to the recipes themselves -- a list of ingredients with terse prose on how to mix and how long to cook, there is nothing separate from the idea. Or at least not in the recipes I follow.

Steve

On Friday, April 1, 2005, at 06:10 PM, LKim[_at_]cohenlaw.com wrote:

They aren't, even when evaluated on a case by case basis (hence the word

"copyrightable")?

See, e.g., <http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html>.

Lee Kim, Esq.

Patent Agent

Cohen & Grigsby, P.C.

11 Stanwix Street, 15th Floor

Pittsburgh, PA 15222

Direct dial: 412-297-4969

FAX: 412-209-1965 E-mail: lkim[_at_]cohenlaw.com

Steven Jamar

<sjamar[_at_]law.howar

d.edu> To

Sent by: "CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright &

"CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Intellectual Property"

Copyright & <CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org>

Intellectual cc

Property"

<CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cn Subject

i.org> [CNI-(C)] Re: music playlists

04/01/2005 04:25

PM

Please respond to

"CNI-COPYRIGHT --
Copyright &

Intellectual

Property"

<CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cn

i.org>

recipes are not copyrightable. collections of them are.

On Thursday, March 31, 2005, at 04:05 PM, LKim[_at_]cohenlaw.com wrote:

I would analogize play lists as being similar to recipes.

Recipes

are copyrightable as compilations. Nimmer makes reference to this,

but the

copyright is thin. Here, the play lists are being copied without

authorization and, to the extent that they are copied as a whole, this

raises a good question of whether verbatim copyright infringement has

been

committed and the thickness of the protection of said copyright.

[106(1)

being the right to reproduce and authorize the making of copies --

separate

and apart from 106(3) -- the right to distribute and authorize the

distribution of said copies (this would include "publishing"/making

available to the public)).]

Lee Kim, Esq.

Patent Agent

-- 

Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 

Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8428 

2900 Van Ness Street NW 

mailto:sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu 

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Therefore, we are saved by faith. 

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Therefore, we are saved by love. 

No virtuous act is quite a virtuous from the standpoint of our friend 

or foe as from our own; 

Therefore, we are saved by the final form of love which is forgiveness. 


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-- 

Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 

Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567 

2900 Van Ness Street NW mailto:sjamar[_at_]law.howard.edu 

Washington, DC 20008 http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar/ 




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