Re: Re: Protecting Ideas

hard to square John's point with the sweepstakes instructions case.

On Jan 31, 2007, at 5:00 PM, jfnbl[_at_]earthlink.com wrote:

> At 5:20 PM -0500 30/1/07, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>> As in real life, in copyright law size isn't everything; in fact
>> it's not much. A haiku containing 17 syllables in the pattern
>> 5-7-5 would be copyrightable subject matter under 17 USC 102(a),
>> but the same number of syllables in a cake recipe probably
>> wouldn't under 17 USC 102(b). ["Preheat the oven. Be sure to
>> grease the cake pans. Pour batter in pans."] Perhaps these 17
>> syllables are copyrightable in the context of *this* email simply
>> because it is intended to be a haiku and not really a cake recipe?
>
> I thought it was intended as an original expression of the idea of
> a work outside the scope of copyright protection -- an obviously
> self-defeating exercise.
>
> The very fact that it might be taken for poetry, or an illustration
> of a point of law, belies the notion that it isn't protected if
> it's a recipe. The availability of copyright protection can't
> depend on whether the idea expressed is artful or banal. There are
> other ways to write your recipe -- "Be sure to preheat the oven.
> Pour the batter in greased cake pans." It's original enough. So's
> yours.
>
> Everyone uses recipes as the example of unprotected expression, but
> while the merger doctrine forecloses copyright protection for a
> list of ingredients, even if it's an utterly unique and incredibly
> creative recipe that calls for idiosyncratic measures (grams and
> grains mixed with ounces and milliliters) of 50 exotic ingredients
> (a trade secret for sure), the narrative directions should be
> protected against verbatim copying even if they are so spare that
> they defy further reduction ("mix and bake at 350 deg. for 45
> min.") because minimalism is original, unless it's copied from a
> protected work..
>
> John Noble
>
>> In the context of a bumper sticker, does the size of the
>> expressive message matter for its copyrightability, or only the
>> expressive message itself?
>>
>> I think this on a bumper sticker would be copyrightable even
>> without words: :-)
>>
>> But I don't own the idea of a smile, or the right to prevent
>> someone else from coming up with that idea for a bumper sticker.
>
>
>
>>
>> /Larry Rosen
>>
>> Lawrence Rosen
>> Rosenlaw & Einschlag, a technology law firm (<http://
>> www.rosenlaw.com>www.rosenlaw.com)
>> Stanford University, Lecturer in Law
>> 3001 King Ranch Road, Ukiah, CA 95482
>> 707-485-1242 * cell: 707-478-8932 * fax: 707-485-1243
>> Skype: LawrenceRosen
>> Author of "Open Source Licensing: Software Freedom and
>> Intellectual Property Law" (Prentice Hall 2004)
>>
>> From: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
>> [mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org] On Behalf Of akeshet[_at_]imj.org.il
>> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:50 PM
>> To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
>> Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: Protecting Ideas
>>
>> I thought the shortest poem protected by copyright was Fleas, by
>> Anonymous:
>>
>> Adam
>> Had 'em.
>>
>> Well, actually, I recall this one used as an illustration of "just
>> how much is the whole work, or the heart of a work," when
>> considering whether or not a quotation is a fair use.
>>
>> Amalyah Keshet
>> The Israel Museum, Jerusalem
>>
>>
>>
>> From: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property on behalf
>> of Michael Graham
>> Sent: Sat 27/01/2007 03:00
>> To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
>> Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: Protecting Ideas
>> Not legal advice, and perhaps apocryphyl, but unless the design is
>> entitled to protection as a work of visual arts, a short enough
>> phrase to be printed on a bumper sticker probably is not
>> sufficient to be entitled to copyright protection. I recall an
>> old truth that the shortest legally copyrighted work was a 12 word
>> "poem" by Archibald MacLeish: "Pity the poor hippopotamus, That
>> cannot tell its top from its bottomus." But I could be wrong.
>>
>> Michael R. Graham
>> From Chicago
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
>> [mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org] On Behalf Of Larry Jenks
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:00 PM
>> To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
>> Subject: [CNI-(C)] Protecting Ideas
>> I am a newbie, and although I have read many posts from this
>> website, I really have no background/experience in the area of
>> intellectual property rights. But I'm pretty sure this is an easy
>> question...
>>
>> I have come up with an idea for a t-shirt or a bumper sticker. The
>> value of the idea is really in the words used to convey the idea,
>> not the graphic design of the words and the way they are printed/
>> colored/shaped or otherwise composed or presented. Is there any
>> way to protect this idea?
>>
>> Larry D. Jenks AIA, CSI, NCARB
>>
>> JNX Group, LLC
>> 165 South Hudson Street
>> Denver, Colorado 80246
>> 303.322.6841
>> 720.231.0634 (cell)
>> 303.377.0634 (fax)
>> www.jnxgroup.com
>>
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>>
>
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-- 
Prof. Steven D. Jamar                               vox:  202-806-8017
Howard University School of Law                     fax:  202-806-8567
2900 Van Ness Street NW                   mailto:stevenjamar[_at_]gmail.com
Washington, DC  20008	                          http://iipsj.com/SDJ/

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