Re: Re: Protecting Ideas

Granted. I think Morrissey's wrong.

At 4:55 PM -0500 1/2/07, Steven Jamar wrote:
>hard to square John's point with the sweepstakes instructions case.
>
>On Jan 31, 2007, at 5:00 PM,
><mailto:jfnbl[_at_]earthlink.com>jfnbl[_at_]earthlink.com wrote:
>
>>At 5:20 PM -0500 30/1/07, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>>
>>>As in real life, in copyright law size isn't everything; in fact
>>>it's not much. A haiku containing 17 syllables in the pattern
>>>5-7-5 would be copyrightable subject matter under 17 USC 102(a),
>>>but the same number of syllables in a cake recipe probably
>>>wouldn't under 17 USC 102(b). ["Preheat the oven. Be sure to
>>>grease the cake pans. Pour batter in pans."] Perhaps these 17
>>>syllables are copyrightable in the context of *this* email simply
>>>because it is intended to be a haiku and not really a cake recipe?
>>>
>>
>>I thought it was intended as an original expression of the idea of
>>a work outside the scope of copyright protection -- an obviously
>>self-defeating exercise.
>>
>>The very fact that it might be taken for poetry, or an illustration
>>of a point of law, belies the notion that it isn't protected if
>>it's a recipe. The availability of copyright protection can't
>>depend on whether the idea expressed is artful or banal. There are
>>other ways to write your recipe -- "Be sure to preheat the oven.
>>Pour the batter in greased cake pans." It's original enough. So's
>>yours.
>>
>>Everyone uses recipes as the example of unprotected expression, but
>>while the merger doctrine forecloses copyright protection for a
>>list of ingredients, even if it's an utterly unique and incredibly
>>creative recipe that calls for idiosyncratic measures (grams and
>>grains mixed with ounces and milliliters) of 50 exotic ingredients
>>(a trade secret for sure), the narrative directions should be
>>protected against verbatim copying even if they are so spare that
>>they defy further reduction ("mix and bake at 350 deg. for 45
>>min.") because minimalism is original, unless it's copied from a
>>protected work..
>>
>>John Noble
>>
>>>In the context of a bumper sticker, does the size of the
>>>expressive message matter for its copyrightability, or only the
>>>expressive message itself?
>>>
>>>I think this on a bumper sticker would be copyrightable even
>>>without words: :-)
>>>
>>>But I don't own the idea of a smile, or the right to prevent
>>>someone else from coming up with that idea for a bumper sticker.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>/Larry Rosen
>>>
>>>Lawrence Rosen
>>>Rosenlaw & Einschlag, a technology law firm
>>>(<<http://www.rosenlaw.com>http://www.rosenlaw.com><http://www.rosenlaw.com>www.rosenlaw.com)
>>>Stanford University, Lecturer in Law
>>>3001 King Ranch Road, Ukiah, CA 95482
>>>707-485-1242 * cell: 707-478-8932 * fax: 707-485-1243
>>>Skype: LawrenceRosen
>>>Author of "Open Source Licensing: Software Freedom and
>>> Intellectual Property Law" (Prentice Hall 2004)
>>>
>>>From: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
>>>[<mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org>mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org] On
>>>Behalf Of <mailto:akeshet[_at_]imj.org.il>akeshet[_at_]imj.org.il
>>>Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 2:50 PM
>>>To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
>>>Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: Protecting Ideas
>>>
>>>I thought the shortest poem protected by copyright was Fleas, by Anonymous:
>>>
>>>Adam
>>>Had 'em.
>>>
>>>Well, actually, I recall this one used as an illustration of "just
>>>how much is the whole work, or the heart of a work," when
>>>considering whether or not a quotation is a fair use.
>>>
>>>Amalyah Keshet
>>>The Israel Museum, Jerusalem
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>From: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property on behalf
>>>of Michael Graham
>>>Sent: Sat 27/01/2007 03:00
>>>To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
>>>Subject: [CNI-(C)] Re: Protecting Ideas
>>>Not legal advice, and perhaps apocryphyl, but unless the design is
>>>entitled to protection as a work of visual arts, a short enough
>>>phrase to be printed on a bumper sticker probably is not
>>>sufficient to be entitled to copyright protection. I recall an
>>>old truth that the shortest legally copyrighted work was a 12 word
>>>"poem" by Archibald MacLeish: "Pity the poor hippopotamus, That
>>>cannot tell its top from its bottomus." But I could be wrong.
>>>
>>>Michael R. Graham
>>>From Chicago
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
>>>[<mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org>mailto:CNI-COPYRIGHT[_at_]cni.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Larry Jenks
>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:00 PM
>>>To: CNI-COPYRIGHT -- Copyright & Intellectual Property
>>>Subject: [CNI-(C)] Protecting Ideas
>>>I am a newbie, and although I have read many posts from this
>>>website, I really have no background/experience in the area of
>>>intellectual property rights. But I'm pretty sure this is an easy
>>>question...
>>>
>>>I have come up with an idea for a t-shirt or a bumper sticker. The
>>>value of the idea is really in the words used to convey the idea,
>>>not the graphic design of the words and the way they are
>>>printed/colored/shaped or otherwise composed or presented. Is
>>>there any way to protect this idea?
>>>
>>>Larry D. Jenks AIA, CSI, NCARB
>>>
>>>JNX Group, LLC
>>>165 South Hudson Street
>>>Denver, Colorado 80246
>>>303.322.6841
>>>720.231.0634 (cell)
>>>303.377.0634 (fax)
>>>www.jnxgroup.com
>>>
>>>The material in this transmission contains confidential
>>>information intended only for the addressee. If you are not the
>>>addressee, any disclosure or use of this information by you is
>>>strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in
>>>error, please delete it, destroy all copies, and notify Marshall,
>>>Gerstein & Borun by telephone (312) 474-6300. Thank you
>>>**********************************************************************
>>>
>>
>>
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>
>--
>Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017
>Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567
>2900 Van Ness Street NW
><mailto:stevenjamar[_at_]gmail.com>mailto:stevenjamar[_at_]gmail.com
>Washington, DC 20008
> <http://iipsj.com/SDJ/>http://iipsj.com/SDJ/
>
>"There are obviously two educations. One should teach us how to
>make a living and the other how to live."
>
>
>James Truslow Adams
Received on Fri Feb 02 2007 - 22:05:00 GMT