Re: P, T, and C

From: CNI-COPYRIGHT Moderator <listmgr[_at_]>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 18:50:40 -0400 (EDT)

10 replies
220 lines, 6828 bytes

On Fri, 6 Sep 96, Jayne Sebby <jsebby[_at_]> wrote:
> In one of those middle of the night moments I got to wondering if
> there is any "thing" out there that is simultaneously patented,
> trademarked, and copyrighted. Seems like it's feasible but I
> couldn't come up with anything specific? Can any of you?
> Jayne Sebby
> jsebby[_at_]

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 96 08:36:26 PDT
From: Charles McGarry <cmcgarry[_at_]> Subject: RE: P, T, and C

One possible answer: The Coca-Cola bottle (design patent, trademarked shape, copyright on the label).

Name: Charles McGarry
E-mail: Charles McGarry <cmcgarry[_at_]> Date: 9/9/96
Time: 8:36:26 AM

Law Office of Charles McGarry
Entertainment Law and Civil Litigation

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 10:04:31 -0400
From: sjamar[_at_] (Steven D. Jamar) Subject: Re: P, T, and C

Software can be simultaneously protected by copyright and patent and, if one is careful about it, trade secret - though it is perhaps incorrect to say that exactly the same aspect of the software is being patented, copyrighted and protected by trade secret. And one must be a bit careful about fraud on the patent office and best methods and stuff like that.

I don't know of anything that can be patented (assuming utility patents and not design patents) and trademarked, though one can easily enough copyright a design which is then used and protected as a trademark.

Steve Jamar

Prof. Steven D. Jamar
Dir. LRW Program

Howard University School of Law
2900 Van Ness Street NW
Washington, D.C. 20008
sjamar[_at_] voice: 202-806-8017 fax 202-806-8428

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 09:18:50 +0000
From: "Spectrum Press" <specpres[_at_]> Subject: Re: P, T, and C

Well, consider something like the Sharp Wizard. The name is trademarked, the hardware is patented, and the software is under copyright. Or consider an art mobile. The motion device may be unique and under patent, the mobile itself under copyright, and the entire ensemble have a trademarked special name.

Dan Agin

Spectrum Press Etexts - Over 300 Etexts Delivered by Email ----- "From Aristotelian Logic to Underground Erotica" -----
For catalog: subject "catalog" to specpres[_at_]      
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Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 10:16:33 -0700
From: Howard Knopf <knopfh[_at_]>
Subject: Re: P, T, and C

Yes, for better or worse.

Computer programs.

Howard Knopf
Perley-Robertson, Panet, Hill & McDougall
Phone: 613-566-2820 or
Fax:   613-238-8775

E-Mail: knopfh[_at_]


Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 07:43:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Terry Carroll <carroll[_at_]>
Subject: Re: P, T, and C

Coming up with an example should be as easy as 1-2-3.

Terrence J. Carroll 
Attorney at Law                                      ph: 415/843-5090
Cooley Godward Castro Huddleson & Tatum             fax: 415/857-0663
Five Palo Alto Square            email (office): carrolltj[_at_]
Palo Alto, CA 94306-2155         email (personal):    carroll[_at_]

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 10:57:44 -0400
From: Jessica Litman <Litman[_at_]>
Subject: Re: P, T, and C

Koosh balls.

The Oddzon Products v. Oman case upheld the Register's refusal to 
register a Koosh ball, in part because of the product's utility 
patent.  Oddzon responding by introducing a line of Koosh ball 
characters -- Koosh balls with heads and arms that seem to me to 
meet the test for separable artistic features, but retaining the 
invention claimed in the utility patent.  According to the product's 
tag, Oddzon claims a trademark on the configuration of its Koosh 
balls  -- even the simple ones.

Jessica Litman
Wayne State University Law School                     313-577-3952

Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 10:35:36 -0500
From: Mark Lemley <MLEMLEY[_at_]>
Subject: Re: P, T, and C

A couple of different categories come to mind.  First, computer 
software.  It is now eligible for patent protection in its inventive 
components.  It has always been eligible for copyright protection 
for at least code and screen displays.  Further, there is some good 
evidence that icons and even general screen displays may be the 
subject of both design patent and trade dress protection.  [And let's 
not forget trade secrets in the code, if it is distributed under 

Second, design patents generally can overlap with both trade 
dress/product configuration protection and copyright protection, 
depending on what sorts of designs are being protected.  Indeed, 
there are a number of recent cases regarding the overlap between 
patent (utility or design) and trade dress.

Mark Lemley
Assistant Professor, University of Texas School of Law
Of Counsel, Fish & Richardson, P.C.

Date: Mon, 9 Sep 96 15:57:00 EDT
From: John Kasdan <kasdan[_at_]>
Subject: Re: P, T, and C

Check out:


Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 14:48:47 -0800
From: Harold Federow <hfederow[_at_]>
Subject: Re: P, T, and C

I can give you one, I think:

The Boeing 747 (with the hump) has a design patent on the "hump".  
The typeface that Boeing uses is copyrighted and the name Boeing in 
the typeface is, I assume, trademarked.  747 or Boeing 747 might 
also be trademarked, I'm not sure.  

Does this work?

Harold Federow

Date: 9 Sep 1996 15:53:08 U
From: "Martha Luehrmann" <Martha_Luehrmann[_at_]>
Subject: Re: P, T, and C

On 9/9/96 Jayne Sebby wondered if there is any "thing" out there that 
is simultaneously patented, trademarked, and copyrighted.

Dear Jayne

A lot of products that read on patent claims are also covered by 
copyright and trademark.  For instance, your Mac or PC is covered by 
several utility patents, probably some design patents, copyrights for 
software, visuals, and audibles, and the names and logos are certainly 
trademarked.  So, one technology can and often does lead to various 
kinds of IP protection.  I think this is most common where software 
is involved, since it is a bit of a hybrid between a utility invention 
and a means of expression, and protecting it fully generally involves 
at least patent and copyright.

My guess is that this will become much more common, as 'virtual 
engineering' with software replaces hardwire engineering.

Martha Luehrmann
Lawrence Berkeley National Lab
Received on Mon Sep 09 1996 - 22:50:42 GMT

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